A reader called “theologyarchaeology” commented to the note from Rick James with the following short reply.
The problem for Rick James is 1 Cor. 6:9 clearly states that the homosexual will not see the kingdom of God. No God did not create an abomination but His creation can choose to become one. Homosexuality is a choice. Since God does not change, what He considers to be an abomination in the OT is an abomination in the New.
This is my reply to “theologyarchaeology.”
“The problem for Rick James is 1 Cor. 6:9 clearly states that the homosexual will not see the kingdom of God.”
No, the problem for you is that I Cor. 6:9 does not clearly mention homosexuals at all. The Greek word μαλακός (malakos) has a root meaning of soft, luxurious, or dainty. There is no clear statement in I Corinthians 6:9 regarding homosexuality for the simple reason that homosexuality did not exist as a concept in the first century C.E. The word “homosexuality” didn’t even appear in print until 1869, just after the American civil war.
“No, God did not create an abomination but His creation can choose to become one.”
Don’t be silly. God most certainly did create what are called toeba in Hebrew. There are scores of animals that God created that were toeba for the Jews. I once made a list of over 100 animals that were toeba for the Israel.
These foods were taboo. They were forbidden for the Jews, but not for everyone. And Gentiles were never under Torah anyway.
These other animals did not choose to be placed on someone’s non-kosher list. No owl, snake, pig, rabbit, or clam ever chose to be an abomination. They were given that label by someone, within a particular group, and that label was later rescinded. The owl, snake, pig, rabbit, and clam were born that way, and given a label by someone at some point in history.
“Homosexuality is a Choice.”
Choice? Please be serious. Even Romans 1 says it wasn’t a choice. In Romans 1, no one “chooses” to do anything. Give me a break. As an Accuser of the Brethren, you are invoking the greek scriptures like a replacement for the Torah, but you haven’t even read it closely enough to misuse it well! What is repeated three times? God gave them over. God gave them over. God gave them over.
Since you’re making the charges, let’s look at what Romans 1 actually says.
Although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. (Romans 1:21)
First of all, everyone knows God. Second, everyone fails to perfectly glorify and thank God. According to traditional doctrine, we all fall short of the glory of God. We all “miss the mark,” which is the root meaning of ημαρτια (sin).
And what happens as a result of our failure to be grateful to God and to increase his good reputation? God gives us over to three things. GOD himself, according to this passage, gave us over to the following three things.
- Therefore God gave them over to sinful desires. (1:24)
- God gave them over to shameful lusts. (1:26)
- He gave them over to a useless mind. (1:28)
I don’t see anyone choosing anything here, unless it’s God. No one chooses to fornicate. No one choose to have same-sex partners. No one choose to have a useless mind. Most Christians are guilty of many of the 25 or so sins in Romans 1, including those 21 listed as sins of the depraved mind, as well as the first four. None of us chose to have a useless mind. I didn’t choose to have a useless mind. You didn’t choose to have a useless mind. We were born with useless minds.
We hear so much about seeing things from God’s perspective. Here you have it, God’s perspective. So stop all this blathering about people choosing to be homosexuals.
God gave them over. God gave them over. God gave them over.
Why? Well, there are answers to this question sprinkled througout the book of Romans, but the most straightforward answer is this:
God has imprisoned all in disobedience, so that He may have mercy on them all. (Romans 11:32)
Yes, re-read that verse friends. It says what it says. God will have mercy on us all.
Homosexuality is not a choice. Romans 1 says so.
“Since God does not change, what He considers to be an abomination in the OT is an abomination in the New.”
I’m really surprised at you. Remember those 100+ animals in Leviticus that were toeba? Well, God took them off the toeba list in Acts 10: 9-16, which is in the New Testament. I’m sure you remember Peter’s vision of the large sheet lowered from heaven covered with animals on the toeba list, and how God said, “Get up Peter, kill and eat!” You have clearly misrepresented what is in the Bible.
When you make such a categorical misstatement, one so easily proven incorrect, it’s hard for me to know how you expect to be listened to. You are an unreliable guide. (Proverbs 13:17 and 25:19)
God may not change, but “he” certainly seems to “change his mind” about things. For one, God gave the Law to Moses, others expanded on it, and finally God canceled it through the Apostle Paul. A second, lesser example, is the Bronze Snake that God ordered to be cast and placed on a tall pole to halt a plague (Numbers 21), and then ordered destroyed when it became an idol (II Kings 18). God certainly does “change his mind” about things.
And when God doesn’t change his mind, we as the εκκλησια (church) are able to change our minds when necessary. Exercising the εξουσια (authority) given us by Christ and the gospel, by discerning the mind of Christ and following his example, the εκκλησια disregards certain scriptures on issues both large and small. Most of us have no problem with women speaking in church. Most of us have no problem with divorce and remarriage (a sexual sin). Most of us wouldn’t think of requiring women to wear head coverings. And I am aware of no church that excommunicates couples for having sex during the woman’s period (a sexual sin).
Most of us would, however, have serious problems with the restoration of slavery in the U.S., even though slavery was acceptable in both the Old and New Testaments and in every section of the Bible (The Gospels and Epistles, the Historical Books, the Law and the Prophets, and Wisdom Literature).
So, God created and labeled over 100 animals as abominations for Israel, and then changed his mind, canceling those taboos for the church. God created the Torah for Israel, and canceled it for the church. Exercising the εξουσια (authority) given us by Christ, the εκκλησια disregards certain scriptures on issues both large and small. God changes his mind over small things (the Bronze Serpent) and large (the Law). While it does mention softness, luxury, and daintiness, I Corinthians 6:9 says nothing about homosexuality. And God himself gave people over to sinful desires, shameful lusts, and useless minds; there was no choice on the part of anyone.
There is one thing that may be a choice, however: your refusal to re-examine the interpretation of scripture handed down to you by your ancestors. But I guess that comes under the heading of the useless, or depraved, mind.
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For posts on the Cancellation of the Law, click here.
For posts on the Clobber Passages, click here.